Category Archives: Uncategorized

May 20 2012

Counseling on Careers needs to include family’s aspirations and circumstances. Not just student’s aptitude and grades.

I am not a trained career counsellor and SECONDLY I believe that in the last 22 years I have met with thousands of young school leavers and their parents that I can write on this with full conviction.

Most “Career Counsellors” use a couple of key tools to maximize their interaction with the students. These tools are primarily the inferences from an aptitude testing and then a library of guides that indicate that what aptitude link up to various careers. Some also look at the grades that the student has been getting in the subjects being attempted. To most this will look as a good game plan. Now consider…

An aptitude test can only give you a desired result if it has been taken with full sincerity. Even then there are several instances where the aptitude testing mechanism which has been developed in another culture and circumstances actually give very inaccurate results. One student told me that he consulted two vendors of aptitude testing and both came up with contrasting results. My son who is in a reputed private residential school showed me the result of his own aptitude test which indicated low numeracy skills and hence did-not give him any recommendation for the areas that he wanted to pursue. I found that to be odd since he is amongst the top 5% of his class in Maths and Computers and so I immediately disregarded the test… However it got me thinking on what if many parents and students plan their careers based on inaccurate aptitude tests. It is possible that the test was not attempted with the desired seriousness or the way the questions were framed didn’t have the desired goal.

Hence, my suggestion to parents who do want to get their wards to take aptitude tests is to follow what they do with pathological testing. Very often if one lab test comes up with a result, we do try and repeat the test from another lab at some other time. Then both the results are compared. The lab tests are like the aptitude testing as they allow the specialist to come up with his own diagnosis using the test results.

There are career counsellors who may agree that the aptitude testing can be faulty but then do they advise the student to undertake another testing from another vendor! If they take their counseling seriously and believe that the leads should be accurate, they must cross check the results this way in all cases.

Another HUGE mistake that career counsellors make is disregarding the family circumstances that come into play. They do need to also have a detailed session with each of the parents and understand the career aspirations.

The world today is not as clinical and certainly it doesn’t offer equal opportunities and complete fair play. We may want it to but it doesn’t. The son of a Doctor (or of Lawyer, CA, Architect…) is likely to get a significant head-start in the same occupations and at the same time many young students do-not want to pursue the same profession as their parents which sometimes is due to a closer observation of the profession at their homes and the fact that “the grass looks greener with other occupations”. The need to understand that there are pros and cons in all occupations. A closer counselling of the student keeping practical circumstances, idealism and aptitude will do the trick.

Parents donot want to “impose” but they almost always forget to “expose” their children to actual professionals in the desired occupations.

The family circumstances and aspirations are important also for others. I have now done a small sampling that is broken up on the various regions in India and communities in India and it helps me with any career advise. By looking at the surname and family background, I can say with 90% certainty if the student will study overseas and if yes, in which country and whether he would like to settle there or return back to India and then to be a professional seeking a job or will want to be self-employed at some time in his or her life. A boy who has parents as entrepreneurs and in business, tends to be a little more “risk taking” and could possibly want to be self employed at some time in his life. Some career options will allow self-employment easily while others will not. Factors such as 1)is it a joint family, 2)are there elders other than immediate parents who have a larger say in the way things happen and hence need counseling, 3)is the student eldest in the family, 4)does he have siblings, 5)is there a migration history in the family and 4)financial situation… need to be given foremost attention.

With the risk of being accused of gender bias, I want to remind that often the aspirations of an Indian family for a career for a girl differs from a boy. Not saying that they donot want to invest in careers for girls but it is just that they often want a different type of a career for a girl and want the girl to be sensitized to this. Some parents believe that the career counsellors who base their advise only on aptitude testing and college requirements are doing a disservice if they donot understand the realities of today’s world and Indian circumstances. Girls do very well in several careers and do better than boys. On the other hand there are careers which seem more suited for boys. Most importantly, most Indian parents firmly believe that girls should get a portable skill set and should be professionally able to survive on her own in any adversity. A life of a girl changes several times in a short few years after college in India and maybe even in the world. I do believe that this is a just thought.

Now let me give a few real-life case studies from recent days that I have come across where I firmly believe that the counseling was inadequate.

  • A school leaver from a leading residential school who is likely to get around 85% in ISC and a desire to join the Indian Civil Services was advised that since the requirement to join the civil services is that one can be from varied backgrounds and should have a Bachelor Degree, he can join a good Hotel Management program where he will get admission with his percentage. The student’s father is a bank manager. Technically the advise can be followed but the fact is that one who studies Hotel Management is going to find it very difficult to clear the Civil Services examination later. Almost impossible. Hotel Management programs are more hands-on and less academic. They have internships too. Post the program the student would take up a placement and enter in low positions in the hotels which are taxing on the student physically and leaving him with limited time to put in for any other studies. On the other hand, Civil Services require a certain academic direction and dedication. The choice of subjects at the Bachelors level and thereafter do matter. I found the advise and the career path being planned by the said student to be very odd though am not sure if the student will follow my advise and join a Bachelors Degree in one of the Humanities or Social Sciences area of his interest and then put in the desire preparation. I have done my job but I guess the career advise that he received at school will finally count and we can hope to see him at one of the leading hotels in India or world but certainly not as the District Magistrate of my city.
  • A girl student from another leading school who studied Commerce in Year 12 was referred to me by her mother. The student was academically brilliant and following the aptitude testing was advised to consider Architecture. There are no architects in the family and she has never been exposed to the profession too. She now wants to pursue it in US at a top University where the cost will be in excess of Rs 1.5 Crores. She has not studied Physics but understands that it is only a recommended subject and not a mandatory requirement. Should she pursue her passion (or is it a passion indeed as she has not been exposed to it at all)? Despite the fact that the mother is a single parent and may have to sell a property to fund the education, should the student be funded? This was clearly a difficult counseling that I handled recently though am not sure whether the result of the aptitude testing on a student who was set to pursue a career in accountancy or economics should be given such weightage. Practical realities need to be included in career counselling for sure and this is where the counseling is less prescriptive.
  • Indian students also need to check on the AIU (Association of Indian Universities) website on the equivalences of the degrees sought overseas even if the Universities are well regarded. AIU, the Indian peak body for the purpose, I am told, is now not giving equivalences to 1 year British Masters and requires engineering degrees to be of 4 years or more. I have done a seperate blog on this and have provided the links to the appropriate sites to cross check this. Students studying other professional degrees overseas should also check on the professional membership post the course of study in India. For example, only a few of the Architecture degrees from overseas are recognized in India. If a student wants to join his family business too, he needs to ensure that the degree is valid in India or else it is just a fine piece of paper. Fair or Unfair, this is our country.
Also there are times when the desire for a particular career path is taken on the basis of reasons that seem absurd…
  • A student who loves John Grisham’s courtroom dramas decided early in his life to become a lawyer. However when he first visited an Indian courthouse he immediately decided that this is not what he expected.
  • A student took up Hotel Management just because of the attractive brochures and the impression that it leads to a glamorous life. I asked him to find out about the stipends that the interns get and the salaries that even hotels like Oberois and Taj pay to fresh Hotel Graduates. He just couldnot believe it.
Remember that “a wrong diagnosis is worse than no diagnosis !”
May 16 2012

When NZ looks for scapegoats in education agents “to cover their faults”; NZ loses its uniqueness.

I am often accused of being biased in favor of New Zealand and its regulations. I am and I am not hiding it. This is more so, because, over the years, this tiny country has done several things that stands it apart. Even with the changes, the immigration system in Australia is likely to be inspired from the NZ system. NZ is possibly the only country which gets into accrediting agents and now from July of this year, they will not make any bones of the fact that they will give priority processing to these accredited education agents.

However, the real character is often tested at the toughest of times. They say that when you are attacked, you need to come in defense of those who have not erred and identify and correct those who have, even when that maybe yourself. We have seen and closely observed the behavior of the Government Departments of various destination countries and the education providers in recent years to state that even before guilt can be proven to be of the education agents, education agents are often ascribed as the likely culprits for any recruitment of wrong students that take place. If a student overstays, the education agent is at fault even though the role of the agent ended years ago and the student may have been influenced by several others. If a student provides a fraudulent document, the education agent is at fault even though the agent was unaware and the fraud may be so close to the original that even the department of immigration may not have noticed.  If the student chooses to work part time at wrong hours and in wrong jobs, the education agent is at fault even though the job may have been found through the job centre of the institution.

This needs to end. Now with the London Statement, all the major countries are acknowledging that there are good agents who need to be encouraged. At the same time there are good and bad in each and every trade. Good doctors and Bad doctors. Good lawyers and Bad lawyers. Good visa officers and Bad visa officers…. Generalized comments on education agents and any implied finger pointing at agents without real evidence of their role in anything is simply not a move that encourages agents.

Now what has got me venting the above and what does this have to do with NZ which has always relied on the use of education agents…

Just yesterday, I did  a blog where I praised the effort of the Education NZ and Immigration NZ in entering an MOU by which accredited education agents get priority processing. Interestingly on the same very day, a news broke in NZ where groups of Indian students complained that they were being denied recognition of their Indian nursing degrees even after having been recruited into and then completing the conversion programs for Nurses. From the fact of the story it appears that groups of Indian students were recruited by Government owned Polytechnics in NZ for a program designed to convert nursing qualifications from overseas to NZ requirements for registration as Nurses. However on completing of the courses, these students were then told that they are no-good since the Indian qualification that they held is no-good. I agree with the students that this is simply a case of cheating them… Any student who joins such a program is clearly marketed (look up the institute website) that they will then be ready for the NZ job market. Infact the very premise of these programs appear to be that. Secondly, Immigration NZ normally donot even grant a student visa if the program is not appropriate for the student and their intention. Hence, clearly to me the problem lies in the program of study and its marketing by the institutions. Now the students are well within their rights to complain.

My concern is that from the report it appears that the institution and NZQA and the news anchor and the storyline is hinting that the agent has provided wrong counseling. I donot know the agent at all but going by the report I donot find the students saying that and also the interview of the agent by the channel which clearly is aimed at pulling out a confession of guilt, has not succeeded in doing so. I am an NZSA accredited counsellor who is now going to get priority processing but honestly, I could have been in the position of the same said education agent. If the program of the study is in the International prospectus and on the website and promotes it to the Indian nurse without any disclaimers that it doesnot apply to India then I would have certainly helped the nurse apply for that program. Where am I wrong? The institution needs to not accept Indian nurses to this program if it will lead to a dead-end post the qualification especially if the program of study is done post the Indian qualification and aimed at converting it to NZ requirements.

An investigation has been launched but I can tell you before-hand itself, the result will be that… the institutions that accepted the application into a postgrad program without checking the undergrad equivalence will not be at fault, the institutions that list the details on their website that the program will make them eligible for registration is not going to be at fault, the immigration which only grants visas for programs that have a positive outcome and a progression thereafter will not be at fault… Who will be at fault will be the education agent who will be found to have assured more than what should have been done… The agent doesnot have a voice and the agent is faraway. The institute might simply not renew the agreement with the agent and indicate to NZQA that they have taken action… A warning will be issued and the matter will be closed.

Is this fair?

Now watch the news video(till end) on the link below and decide for yourself…

News reporting on Indian Nursing Students being denied registration in NZ.

TVNZ Report

May 15 2012

New Zealand introduces its own STREAMLINE VISA PROCESSING relying on their accredited education agents… Good Move indeed !!!

NZ to launch 10-day visa processing

In a bid to boost international numbers, New Zealand has agreed to speed up visa processing for those wanting to study in New Zealand – but only if they use government endorsed agents. From the end of July, international students who use a New Zealand Specialist Agent (NZSA) will have their visa applications processed within 10 working days, compared with 30 days (the current average waiting time) through other agents.

NZSA agents will also be given a dedicated point of contact within Immigration New Zealand branches, with whom they can discuss student visa applications before they are submitted.

“The international education industry is worth just over $2 billion to New Zealand’s economy. It is a bridge between New Zealand and the world. We want to double the economic and social benefits that international education brings over the next 15 years,” Tertiary Education, Skills and Employment Minister Steven Joyce said in a statement this week.

“Only by the government working closely with the sector, and developing initiatives such as this that support growth, will we achieve that goal.”

Launched in 2007, the New Zealand Specialist Education Agent scheme is designed to raise the efficacy of education agents promoting New Zealand abroad. NZSAs undergo training, agree to an ethical code of conduct, and are officially recognised by New Zealand government agencies and education institutions.

However, only around 30-40% of international students in the country come through NZSA’s, suggesting many won’t benefit from the faster processing times. Irene Hamer, a spokesperson for Education New Zealand, said tying faster processing to NZSA’s would “encourage and motivate good performing agents” to join the scheme.

Yousef Bayyoud, of NZSA-member International Group for Educational Consultancy in Saudi Arabia, said: “At the moment I have to sent applications to Dubai and it takes around 20 days, although it differs from case to case. Ten days will give me good results… The US sometimes offers visas in three days so it’s competitive.”

However, he said most of his work was with Saudis who did not pose many visa problems. “I’ve faced delays with other nationalities such as Yemenis or Jordanians. I’ve had to wait up to two or three months in the past for New Zealand visas. So I hope this new processing applies to all nationalities,” he said.

As part of its mission to boost education exports, the New Zealand government wants to double the number of postgraduate students coming to the country and improve transition to residence rates among other measures over the next 15 years.

Recent efforts have included trade missions to Saudi Arabia and the scrapping of health screening rules, which will save international students NZ$17 million in costs.

The above is sourced from http://thepienews.com/news/nz-to-launch-10-day-visa-processing/

May 10 2012

Is effective schooling being delivered by efficient schools? New-Age vs Traditional Schools.

The Telegraph carries an interesting article this day from the head of a leading traditional school in Kolkata. The article makes very good reading in today’s times when new-age efficient schools are clearly challenging the education being delivered by traditional schools. While I let you read the content yourself and arrive at your own conclusions, I do believe that the answers to all the various issues raised in the article are not going to be unfortunately available in the immediate context. Parents do want stress-free education (as a mother of a recent graduate from the school that the writer heads told me just yesterday) but they also want a career-direction and appropriate advise for their wards from the schools keeping in focus the aspirations of the family too. Unfortunately, the world over, parents do desire that their children reach the right centers of learning post the schooling and for that the focus on academics is indeed very important. It is even more frustrating for a student of a top school ending up in colleges that are just not right-brands and in sync with the brand of the school. The combination of offering stress-free education (read it as less academic and balanced with co-curriculars) and facilitating entry to right colleges (read it as high academic and less co-curriculars) is something which is going to divide the schools into two separate categories till our education system changes. Add to this the pressure for tutorials and coaching for entrance exams, eligibility tests and parental aspirations. Very few traditional schools are changing with times and I find them busiest when they have to take admissions and not when they have to prepare the students for the right careers. Career Counseling in several city schools is as good as absent and many confuse psychological counsellors to be career counsellors. Further the aptitude testing that is held too is unreliable in most cases. I can almost guarantee that if a student takes an aptitude testing from two vendors, he is likely to receive two different results. Why should this be… The aptitude testing mechanism too need tweaking in Indian context too.

The cartoon below is not from the article in The Telegraph but I found it very appropriate.

QUESTIONING THE ANSWERS
As lists of ‘good schools’ grow, it is time to ask again what exactly makes for quality in school education, writes Devi Kar. The author is director, Modern High School for Girls, Calcutta
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Much has been written and said about the nature of punishment meted out in schools. But nobody has seriously questioned the nature of awards and prizes that are handed out to students. For instance, the practice of awarding ‘good conduct’ prizes has always puzzled me. What exactly is meant by ‘good conduct’? How is it assessed or measured? Does it mean conforming, being obedient, being discreetly out of mischief and never contradicting authority? Can it possibly be accepted that only one student in an entire class has demonstrated good conduct in a given year?

The same argument holds for institutions. What is a good school? Lists and directories of ‘good schools’ abound, as do annual rankings of schools — usually based on the perception of the general public. A wide range of criteria is considered in these reckonings, but the irony is that we have not questioned or analysed the public perception of a ‘good school education’. Is it possible for a school to be delivering poor education although it is perceived to be ‘good’? Canefficient schooling be confused with effective schooling?

Promotional videos of different schools of repute invariably present the same set of images to the viewer — happy faces, neat lines, raised hands in the classroom and the Head engaged in modern-day camaraderie with students and colleagues. All the ingredients of a standard recipe are there for the world to see — a sparkling, clean environment, smiles all around, state-of-the-art facilities and the prominent display of public-examination ‘toppers’ on the honour roll board. What cannot be shown, however, are the real learning outcomes. After all, the school is a social space where learning is supposed to happen and surely we need to know whether, indeed, it is happening.

It can be argued, of course, that the purpose of a school is to fulfil a set of general expectations of the society in which it exists. What are these expectations? If we cut out the trimmings, we can safely conclude that most people want for their offspring a school education that will ensure the brightest of prospects — a prestigious status and, in the long run, a successful career. On a basic level, a good education is expected to be instrumental in landing lucrative jobs. The first requirement for these expectations is perceived to be super-excellent examination scores combined with active participation — if not competence — in co-curricular and extra-curricular activities.

Schools, in turn, feel compelled to fulfil these expectations. They offer a variety of increasingly important non-academic activities to their students who participate in them with great zeal — not so much for their enjoyment or recreational value as for facilitating their future prospects. Besides, there is an increasing pressure on schools to offer coaching for competitive examinations. It appears strange, but there is a great demand for schools that allow students to absent themselves from their regular classes in order to be made ready for the competitive entrance examinations. A school’s worth goes up if its students perform well in these examinations.

It is true that while navigating the school journey, a student acquires a set of skills — physical, cerebral and social. In addition, the student learns to be involved in community service in a structured manner as Social Service is a compulsory component of the curriculum. So a school may hold up its mission and vision of ‘developing good citizens’ and take pride in the ‘holistic education’ it offers while society recognizes and admires the polish and smartness of the students it turns out with regularity.

But the burning question is whether the education acquired in such a school is ‘good education’. Is it fair to ask whether the successful students are still intellectually curious, and other uncomfortable questions like, are the students equipped to think things through, make independent choices, and express views and feelings? Do these students have the ability to stand up for their own rights and the will to do so for those of others? Can the students critically analyse political and other issues in the media? After all, in our democracy, an 18-year-old has the right to vote.

Let us consider the first question of intellectual curiosity. Of late, professors have been lamenting that even the top students show no interest in knowing or learning anything that is not immediately required or anything that is perceived to be irrelevant or not potentially useful. If a high-school student is asked why general awareness or general knowledge is required, the standard reply is, “In order to face the competition.” The problem lies in this answer. Education is most certainly not about learning to outdo others but to make the most of one’s potential in terms of ‘cognitive, emotional and creative capacities’. Adhering to a strict and narrow script will not help students to achieve this. Both utilitarian and humanistic elements are important in education as is the conscious development of the imaginative and creative powers.

Meanwhile, schools are becoming more like factories as they lose their own individual identity while catering to the demands of society. Students are becoming more and more dependent on tutorial centres while the mainstream teaching population dwindles fast. The saving grace is that in almost every school — good, bad or indifferent — there are some teachers left who inspire, lift and keep the excitement of learning alive.

There are other questions about the readiness to step into the world of higher learning. It is being said that the new college entrant today is able to voice opinions but is not able to justify them in a reasoned manner. In their schools, the students who have been identified as promising public speakers are trained to speak at structured public debates. But making scintillating public speeches is quite different from arguing rationally on a daily basis in real life. Next, we come to the essential tools of teaching and learning — reading and writing skills. Most students do not even bother to read the set text — forget outside-of-syllabus or reference books. They see no point in wasting their time. Ready-made answers to expected questions on the text serve their purpose and their parents pay good money to tutors for this convenient service. So, most students do not make their own notes anymore.

Worse, they have learned to answer but not to question, as teachers find it more practical to ‘teach to the text and test’. Parents are happy as long as the test scores are satisfactory. Forgotten or ignored are the four pillars of education — learning to know, learning to do, learning to live together, and learning to be. Forgotten, too, are the joys of learning. The time is indeed ripe for serious introspection about what is meant by a ‘good education’.

The question of what exactly constitutes ‘quality’ in school education — and how it can be measured — is being currently investigated in depth, for the first time in India. The project, which entails the study of a large number of diverse institutions, has been carried out once and will be repeated at least two more times. Abhijit Vinayak Banerjee, the economist who visited our city recently, observes, “It is harder to learn the quality production function than any other production function. It is easy to vary inputs in a factory and observe changes — in a school it is harder to do.” But those responsible for the study are hoping, among other things, that this attempt will open up a nation-wide dialogue between different stakeholders and people with different views on quality education. It is doubtful whether the results of a study will compel society to review its beliefs about quality education.

Nevertheless, we need to pause a while to reflect on the meaning of a ‘good education’. And we may just realize the urgency to shift gear and change direction for the sake of our children.
May 7 2012

Despite Intelligentsia’s opposition – Proposed BOND for emigrating Indian MBBS be extended to other subsidized professionals…

When Indian Health Minister, Gulam Nabi Azad proposed that all Indian MBBS moving to US for further studies sign a bond that if they donot return, they will not be allowed to practice back in India, it seemed like a new beginning to things… After-all, thousands of Indian doctors do emigrate and the Government reasoning is that for each medical doctor’s education, the government’s subsidy is significant. TOI informs…

According to the study, AIIMS spends at least Rs 31.31 lakh on every undergraduate student per year per course as against an annual fee of an MBBS student of Rs 850 per year that includes room and board and tuition fee.

Over 53% of AIIMS students leave India to work abroad. According to the Medical Council of India (MCI), till July 27, 2011, 767 doctors may have left for foreign shores.

These doctors had asked the MCI to issue them Good Standing Certificates (GSC) – a mandatory requirement for doctors seeking work in hospitals abroad. The MCI issued 1,264 GSCs in 2010, 1,386 GSCs in 2009 and 1,002 in 2008.

Hence the rationale of expecting the doctors who have been educated through significant government subsidy to put in a few years of service in India can easily be justified. There is a clear need to come up with a clear policy on this. It is not just MBBS which is heavily subsidized. I understand that each student who studies at an IIT is subsidized by upto Rs 10 lakhs per year. The same holds for several other professions including possibly IIMs.

What the Government may consider is the model that AFMC Pune or others have. I understand that a student who completes his medical degree from AFMC can choose not to join the Armed Forces Medical Services but then they need to pay an exit fees equal to (or possibly a little less) the subsidy that went into his education. Instead of getting the doctors to sign a bond that indicated that they cannot practice in India after emigrating, the doctor should be allowed to pay an exit-fees that returns the government’s subsidy into the education.

Similar regulations are in Singapore and apply even to International students who receive subsidized Education.

However, the intelligentsia reacted to the proposal with the usual disdain. Several articles can be found on the web where the Minister’s proposal has been severely criticized. However, one of the strongest notes is on the blog of Mr Swaminathan Aiyar and also reported in his column called Swaminomics. Widely respected, his comments are obviously weighty. In my personal opinion, Aiyar has picked and chosen extreme examples to make his point. I agree with him that that emigration is a right and cannot be stopped. However he failed to list the system that exists in Singapore even for international students where they are expected to work for a few years if their places have been subsidized. He also quoted incorrect statistics when he mentioned that one lakh travel each year for studies to US alone (one lakh is the number of indians enrolled in US and not the number of Indians who go to US each year. The number of student visas issued each year from India to US is around 40,000 or less). Now consider his extreme examples to put down the proposal…

Hitler didn’t give German Jews the right to migrate. Communist East Germany thought it had a right to shoot citizens attempting to escape over the Berlin Wall. The Soviet Union mostly had strict curbs on emigration, but allowed the mass exit of its Jews to Israel after the 1967 war in which Moscow backedthe Arabs. Moscow imposed a “diploma tax” on emigrants with higher education, to claw back the cost of their education. Israel often picked up the bill, leading to sneers that the Soviet Union was selling Jews. International protests obliged Moscow to abolish the tax. 

Like the Soviets, Azad wants to claw back sums spent on educating doctors. Like East Germany, he seeks to erect exit barriers by denying Indian doctors a ‘no objection certificate’ to practice in the US. The right to emigrate does not enter his calculations: Azad does not want this azaadi! 

The article also talks on the gains from emigration and that the talk of brain drain is a lop sided discussion. Many of us who know it from close quarters agree with his arguments but at the same time I do believe that we need to find a way through with such a huge subsidy that goes into medical and engineering education in India is not wasted at all. I doubt if any other country subsidizes to the same level.

Hence, the financial bond that is being proposed should be considered and developed than simply being rejected. I am also sure that employers hiring such graduates can easily pay the bond money on their behalf if they really value the Indian manpower export.
May 1 2012

Why IB (INTERNATIONAL BACCALAUREATE) doesn’t fit into the INDIAN scheme of things?

Before you assume that I am opining that Indian year 12 boards especially the ISC to be better than IB, allow me to indicate in clear terms that I am not saying that at all. IB possibly is an advanced curriculum and superior program. The contention of this blog is to talk of IB’s suitability to India… Thats it. Read it and make your own decision.

I am often asked by parents on whether they should opt for a school that offers IB curriculum for their wards. This blog hence is an attempt to consider this question from an Indian perspective.

In Indian Schools that offer the IB Diploma, the curriculum steps in post the Year 10 Indian board. Hence it is safe to conclude that the students who take the Year 10 Indian board have studied in a different delivery model as compared to the IB. It should be easy for most to do this adjustment though can tell you that since it differs from the way many of us are taught through our earlier ten years, it will require some adjustments for some of us.

Many new schools that offer IB give an impression that it is easier to get admission into an Overseas University because of IB as compared to ISC. Having counselled students to overseas options for over 21 years now, I can tell you with full certainty that this is a mere perception only and not really backed by facts. There will only be a few (very few such as Cambridge) Universities and few (very few such as Medicine) courses at certain Universities around the world which may not accept the ISC or the CBSE. Let me also indicate that the admission to the US Universities are based more on the SAT than on the Year 12 board of exams. Hence an ISC student with good SAT has the same chance of getting into an US option as an IB student with the same SAT. ISC is well accepted around the world especially where the admission is based on Year 12 board results such as in UK or Australia or NZ or another commonwealth country. For the students who are still not sure, take a look at the website of a “Russell Group” UK University or “Group of Eight” Australian University and you will find the ISC percentage requirement and the IB Score requirement. Compare the two and some may even conclude that the ISC percentage required for admission to be more achievable for an Indian as compared to the IB score required for the same institution especially for an Indian student. (With a percentage of 85-90% in Indian Boards, one can get into most Engineering programs in Commonwealth Countries and is this % difficult to get for a student seeking Engineering!!! If you have 75-85%, most of them will still take you in through pathway options. Hence if this is not so difficult to get in, how does IB make it easier. For US all have to take the SAT.)

The acceptability of the IB Diploma for admission in India is also a huge issue. While the IB website indicates that AIU recognizes IB Diploma as equivalent to Indian Year 12 and also provides us with a copy of the document that states its equivalence, the AIU website still provides an equivalence document that doesnot list this. This can either be due to an un-updated AIU document but at the same time it is clear that the IB is not being given priority by AIU, enough for it to be listed along with other equivalent Year 12 qualifications from around the world. You take a look at the AIU equivalence document as provided on AIU website.

As an Indian student, you may still go by IB claim and accept it as equivalent. However, now comes the issue of acceptability by the various Universities in India. Most Schools that actively took up the IB program are coming to grasp with some cold realities.

  • Only a handful of Indian Colleges (not even all Colleges under an University) accept the IB. Where it is accepted too, there is no clear idea on the equivalence of IB score to the Indian board percentage. These colleges are primarily in Mumbai and some in Delhi. One of the Schools based in NCR provides a list of colleges that accepted the IB students in recent past and that list doesnot include even St Stephens which has possibly the more flexible of the entry requirements and which is aspired to by school leavers from elite schools.
  • In some cases even if the IB score is accepted, a student is looking at entry only a year later. The reason is that most Indian Colleges close their applications well before the IB results are declared. IB does indicate that there are predited scores provided to the students but doesnot indicate that most of the colleges in India donot accept the predicted scores.
  • The schools that offer the IB indicate that students should be able to take the IIT entrance as IB is acceptable. This is also mentioned on the FAQ on their websites. I wonder at this half information. Most IITs will want the final results to be in by June, I understand and this is not possible under IB system. Secondly, IB doesnot prepare the student in the way IIT or most Indian Engineering institutions admit the students and hence the chances of entry is poor and I am yet to come across a student who has joined an IIT after an IB board. It may be difficult after an ISC too but it is not impossible. With IB it seems closer to impossible.
  • The entrance exams to various options from Engineering to others happen in the month of May and IB exams clash with these dates. This is another reason for unsuitability of the IB for an Indian student.

Let me put out some posers…

  • Did you know that British Engineering Undergrad degrees which are of 3 years duration mayn’t be accepted by AIU to be equivalent to and Indian Engineering degree? You may consider taking a look at my earlier blog on this and also note the comments of the British Council that indicate that the situation “may” change in future.
  • Did you know that if you want to work as a Lawyer or Doctor in India, you rather do your first degree which is the eligible qualification in India? Post graduation can be overseas. Overseas qualification will pose a challenge with eligibility in these professions.
  • There are talks that the electoral reforms may mean that those contesting an election in India should be “at least” a Bachelors… This may mean that many of the current politicians who have undertaken 3 year Engineering degrees or degrees that resulted due to study partly in India and partly overseas and hence not the full 3 year of normal degree or 4 year of Engineering be considered as “not a Bachelors”. This poses and interesting situation with regards to degrees of elsewhere conducted elsewhere and their validity in India.
  • Diplomas in Hotel Management at top Hotel Schools worldwide that also offer an additional component of one year post the diploma that leads to a distance run Bachelors degree are also not considered as Bachelors by Indian guidelines.
  • And such equivalences are relevant even to those Indians who are not seeking a job back in India. Yes, even an entrepreneur who wants to set up a Petrol Pump in India (an example) needs an equivalence certificate to demonstrate that his Engineering degree is valid in India and there is a case that I am aware of that even after studying at a top University overseas he has not managed to get one.

It is hence important to refer to the AIU guidelines. Fair or Unfair, this is India.

One of the rationale given by elite schools in India in cajoling their students to opt for the IB curriculum is that it is very difficult to get into Indian top institutions due to low capacity with them and hence it is safe to opt for IB and then proceed on overseas. This is a damaging advise generally. Increasing Capacity of Indian Institutions: The capacities in India for Undergrad options are increasing. The number of IITs, IIITs, NIFTs… have increased and many of the new campuses have begun to admit students. Their quality will improve. There are reforms taking place in India that will give credence to the Year 12 board in Engineering entrance to IITs and reduce the focus for specialized coaching. Must add quickly that the coaching for admission tests are not likely to disappear but with increased requirement also for school percentage, it will decrease. This is the intent. Many of the colleges are also beginning to increase their capacity. For example, St Xaviers in Kolkata has started an evening session for B Com and hence in turn doubling the capacity. This works wonderfully in keeping the cut-offs in check. BIT Mesra has now offered non-Engineering degrees. Similarly there are some quality providers in private sector whose degree has been given equivalence by the AIU. Such as of Amity. Setting up of Universities of Technologies within several states have helped regulate a number of private institutions too and lift their standards. Happening already and the example are the various colleges under WBUT which did not exist a few years ago. More work is to be done but it is indeed the current focus. Don’t rule your Indian options out. Don’t assume that you will only be studying overseas for your undergrad when you are in Year 9 or 10. Maybe you will or maybe you will study overseas at the Postgrad level. This decision should be taken a little later. 

My summary comments:

ISC or CBSE are far preferable to an IB for an Indian student. All options in India are open for such a student while almost all options open internationally to IB students are also open to them. For admission to better US Universities, students from ISC or CBSE have to take the SAT and so do IB students. No differential. Some say that IB students take less time to undertake the degree overseas as they get credits. This is nothing but a marketing hype. The credits don’t ‘normally’ lead to less time. In some cases, students replace the credits with other subjects or other interests and I am told that boys from ISC and CBSE can also get the same credits if they claim the same. An Indian student who is planning his school education with the aim to study overseas thereafter is alright but one who is planning his school education knowing clearly that he may not be able to apply in India is making a huge mistake. For some students, the costs for overseas education means that it is considered only at the PG level. The cost for Undergraduate education overseas can be anywhere from Rs 50 Lakhs to Rs 1 crore and beyond which only a few families can budget. Others keep this saving for use at the Masters level. There are students who can afford this without much issue but I have not come across a school that clearly prepares the parents of boys in Year 10 for it in terms of this expected funding prior to selling the IB option to their boys. For all professional fields such as Engineering, Medicine, Law … it is far more advisable to keep the Indian options open at all times as these professions requires you to do the first degree in India or else you have to later clear screening requirements which is not easy. And the final thought that even with all planning it can happen that some emergencies or visa difficulties may lead to your plans for overseas education to be altered at the last moment and then you may have to consider doing your undergrad in India. I have seen it in reality. Hence, despite the fact that IB “may” be a better board and curriculum, ISC or CBSE are more suited for India and Indian students. Maybe it will all change in five years but at this time This is what I advise as a counsellor.

Apr 17 2012

Shocker: India states that UK Master Degrees as NOT Master equivalent; British Council “helpless”!!!

AIU (Association of Indian Universities) is the only recognized body in India for granting academic equivalence of degrees/diplomas not only within the country but also to other similar bodies in foreign countries. In acknowledgement to the works done by the Division since its inception the Ministry of Human Resource Development, New Delhi, vide their letter No. Dated 13th May, 1995 issued a Notification that the equivalence done by AIU will be valid for the purpose of higher education as well as employment in the country.

The above is how AIU is described on its official website (www.aiuweb.org). I would assume its role to be similar to NARIC in UK (http://www.naric.org.uk/) and NOOSR in Australia (https://www.aei.gov.au/Services-And-Resources/Pages/AEINOOSR.aspx).

With the above background, allow me to present my blog. There are no disclaimers in this piece and this is based on real and factual circumstances of a student who has been in contact with me recently. The said student studied a Masters Degree in UK from University of Nottingham. Nottingham is a member of the Russell Group, Universitas 21, the Sutton Trust, the Association of Commonwealth Universities, the European University Association and Universities UK. However when he was seeking employment/further studies in India, he was asked to prove that the qualification that he held was recognized in India and it didnot matter if the University was a leading University. What was required was whether the Masters that he held was “equal” to a Masters.

Confused on how to go about, he wrote to British Council in Delhi assuming that they will stand by their degrees and indicate some document that indicates that the Masters from UK is equal to a Masters in India. The reply that he got was…

Thank you for writing to us. Hope you had a good experience in the UK. 

Recognition of overseas degrees in India is guided by Government of India regulations and as you rightly indicate, AIU is the organisation which may comment on it. The British Council is a source of information about education in the UK only and does not offer equivalence certificates.

Wow… he found the reply “dry”. He went on to AIU website (www.aiuweb.org) and then clicked on the link in left column for Evaluation. The page that opened up indicated…

The Association of Indian Universities have signed Protocol/Memorandum of Understanding with the following Countries:
  • Arab Republic of Egypt
  • Russian Federation
  • Australia, Germany
  • Sri Lanka

As per the provisions of the Protocol and Memorandum of Understanding, the degrees awarded by the accredited Universities of these concerned countries, for the full time programmes offered on the Campus of the country of origin, are accepted for admission to higher courses by Indian Universities on reciprocal basis. +2 stage Foreign examinations recognized by AIU

But he was not wanting to know the MOU that these countries had since he had studied not in Egypt, Russia, Australia, Germany or Sri Lanka. He had studied in “the” Britain that has given India the current system of education and has educated most of Indian leading educationists.

Fiddling around the page he comes across the INFORMATION BULLETIN 2009 ON EQUIVALENCE OF DEGREES. The font being big and colourful was difficult to miss. He went on and clicked and it opened up to the answer that he was looking for. The pdf laid out the full equivalence for school leaving, Bachelors and Higher Degree equivalences and it mentions the answer that he was looking for…

Master Degree programs which are less than 2 years in duration of foreign universities have also not been accorded equivalence by AIU. AIU do not issues ECs in such cases. 

The link to the pdf is http://www.aiuweb.org/Evaluation/IB%202009.pdf

Shocked he is! His plans for further education in India which required him to have a Masters is shattered. Masters in UK is mostly a one year qualification and is UK’s biggest USP. He can’t believe that British Council that “promotes” British education in India cleverly indicated that they can only talk of education as in UK. Ha Ha Ha. The British Council promotes the UK Education in India. Holds fairs around the country. Works with Indian institutions and organizations and fosters closer working relationships. Manages scholarships to Indian students and now is not even making its bit to lobby the case of the graduating students from UK to seek their qualification to be equal to Indian qualifications, if not better.

British Council’s Indian pages mention…

Most master’s degrees and MBAs at UK universities last one year compared to two in other countries, including the USA and Australia. Choosing the UK means you only have to pay tuition fees for one year and you’ll be back in the workplace before you know it.

Now is British Council attempting to promote degrees that are not recognised in India. If so, then as per the legal rulings in India, they need to add a disclaimer in the promotions that states that BRITISH MASTER DEGREES OF DURATIONS OF ONE YEAR ARE NOT EQUAL TO INDIAN MASTERS DEGREES!

  • Frankly, AIU needs to be presented with facts so that it can change its equivalence system and accords exception to the 1 year Masters from UK.
  • Frankly, British Council needs to lobby for recognition of British Masters degrees of one year duration before it begins claiming the British Degrees to be globally recognized.
  • Frankly, Banks need to sack all their managers who gave education loans to students going for Masters in UK since the course being aspired for was not going to be recognized even to work in their own nationalized banks. Ha Ha Ha but Yes, true.
  • Frankly, RBI needs to pull all the forex vendors for having opened Higher Study Quotas and allowed precious forex to go out for such studies which are not “equal”.
  • Frankly, education counsellors and agents such as us who have promoted British quality education need to be pulled up by someone. Maybe Ministry of HRD.
  • Frankly, all Indian Leaders, Corporate giants and several others who hold Masters degrees from UK need to be told that they hold “Not-Recognised Qualification”.

and

  • Frankly, UK needs to remind the Indian Minister who went to lobby for work-rights for graduating Indian students in UK, to first give those Indian students work rights in India itself.

What a joke it is! Only AIU prodded by British Council can fix it. If AIU insists to stand by its equivalence model, UK Universities need to be told to promote their Masters in India with a clear statutory wording or disclaimer that their degrees are not eligible for employment and further education in India. Yes, this is what AIU equivalence means.

Apr 17 2012

UK “bluffs” India in believing that it will continue to allow Post Study Work for International Students!

India needs to realize that the provisions and changes in UK are not just for Indian students and it does need some in its team who can do the homework well. If someone from outside the industry reads the article quoted below, he will assume that UK has assured India that PSW will not be abolished for Indian students.

UK has actually committed nothing new to Indian Government but just dressed up the provision that allows switch to Tier 2 which on paper looks easy now but is “little” difficult in reality as it requires a “certain type of job and a certain pay (GBP 20K+) which a fresh international is not able to get”. Typical of India to believe that they have been heard! They should know that both British Council and Universities UK have lobbied hard but the Government continued with the changes…

For those who want to read a summary of the changes with their implications for international students, you can look up the linked page from The University of Manchester website.

Now to the Indian Government’s indication of success in lobbying. Believe it only at your own risk… its better to stick to wait for details… My bet is that the British bluff to them will get called quite soon.

DNA reports… quoting PTI and hence you can imagine that most papers will carry it too.

UK assures India it will allow post-study work permits to students

Published: Tuesday, Apr 17, 2012, 10:59 IST
Place: London | Agency: PTI

Britain has assured India that it will continue to allow post-study work-experience permits to students, provided they get appropriate jobs commensurate with their qualifications or degrees, India’s Commerce and Industry Minister Anand Sharma has said.

After his meetings with Britain’s Chancellor of Exchequer George Osborne and the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills, Vince Cable here, Sharma told media last evening that he had raised the issue of Post Study Work Permits to students.

He shared with them India’s concern about its stoppage as large number of Indian students “come here, they study hard and they should have some practical exposure”.

“The Chancellor of Exchequer George Osborne and the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills Dr Vince Cable have assured that UK will continue to allow…The issue is how they are looking at it,” Sharma said.

“What they have shared with me is that they (students) should get appropriate jobs which are commensurate with their qualifications or degrees. Now that is something which could be discussed,” he added.

The minister said that the very fact that there is this reassurance at the highest level from the British Government, this issue will be resolved.

“I shall follow up my talks today with a communication and I hope that given our relationship, even the fact that a very large number of Indian students from middle class families, ordinary families, students who have taken loans, come and study here and we also are keen to engage more in education and skills sectors where UK has the strength, this issue will get resolved in a correct manner. That is what is communicated to me,” Sharma said.

He added, “They say they have no intention to deny. It is only they are looking at certain specifics so that the domain knowledge is utilised in Post Study Work. Let us leave it at that,” the visiting Indian minister said.